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Making adjustments

Casey Wright: Building the Workforce of Tomorrow – Joel Goldberg Media

Making Adjustments / July 15, 2022

Making adjustments is as critical to your success in business as it is in baseball.

As a keynote speaker, I draw on my years of experience as a sports broadcaster to help teams in the corporate world. I’ve had a front row seat to plenty of curveballs, and if they’ve taught me anything, it’s that when the unexpected comes hurtling towards the plate, you have two choices. Do nothing and take a strike, or adjust and try to get a hit.

Rounding the Bases is my podcast about leadership and culture with a baseball twist. A recent interview focused on making adjustments in business, or as I like to call it, hitting the curve.

making adjustments

I was joined by someone with a passion for introducing good people…to each other, to modern approaches and to perfect-fit workplaces. We’re living through an unprecedented time of hybrid models and turnover. As so many reconsider their professional future, how do they navigate change and find the ideal culture that will enable them to succeed?

The person who knows best is Casey Wright. He’s the visionary Founder and President of Chief of Staff, the Kansas City recruitment firm building the workforce of tomorrow, from entry level to executive. Meeting the challenges of the future means building a business unlike any other. So with proprietary techniques and a team of the best, he’s bringing his industry into the now, building connections that matter for job seekers and creators alike.

SINGLE: The Only Constant is Change

Many people are surprised to learn the pace at which the job market changes. Instead of annually, it can be monthly, weekly or sometimes even daily. Casey was quick to acknowledge that over the course of his sixteen years in the industry, no two days have ever been alike. It’s also one of his favorite things about the work he does. “Every single day is different,” he noted, “and honestly, that’s what keeps me interested.”

DOUBLE: Own Your Luck

Early on in the pandemic, companies weren’t hiring. For a staffing firm where revenue depends on matching job seekers with job creators, that created an unexpected – if not terrifying – situation. But as a believer in creating your own luck, Casey encouraged his team to keep connecting people, even those outside of their typical industry niches. Not because they had a motive, but because it was the right thing to do. By making adjustments to their approach, the company actually earned business. And looking out for people then has paid tremendous dividends now.

TRIPLE: Adjusting To The Times

Little things employers do can make a big impact on the job satisfaction of those who work for them. One trend Casey has noticed gaining momentum in recent years is the relaxing of strict office hours. At many companies, in the past and still to some degree today, if the day begins at 8:00, an 8:02 arrival would mean a reprimand. “You can be in the office and not be getting a lot done,” he said. The focus should be on what you are accomplishing, not the hour of the day you did it. 

HOME RUN: More Than Wins

In the business world, how we are trained to keep score of wins and losses can sometimes be unrealistic. Casey used to get discouraged if he wasn’t able to place someone in their new role, even if it was for a reason entirely beyond his control. But some perspective helped him realize those same people were still referring others to him…because he treated them right during the process. Making adjustments to his measure of success was a game changer. “I can’t place every single person I meet, but I can help 100% of them.”

Listen to the full interview here or tune in to Rounding the Bases every Monday and Thursday, available wherever you get your podcasts.

Learn More About Making Adjustments from Joel

Book Joel Goldberg for your next corporate event. He draws on over 25 years of experience as a sports broadcaster. In addition, he brings unique perspectives and lessons learned from some of the world’s most successful organizations. Whatever your profession, Joel is the keynote speaker who can help your team achieve a championship state of mind.

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Full Transcript:

Joel Goldberg 0:00
Welcome in to Rounding the Bases, the podcast about culture and leadership with a baseball twist presented by Community America Credit Union. My name is Joel Goldberg and appreciate you checking in with us on this one. I oftentimes, well not often, always mentioned at the start of the show, not just the sponsorship with Community America, but also the partnership with Chief of Staff Kansas City. So I mentioned them all the time, and really recommend anyone in the job market looking to hire looking to be hired to just check them out, because they’ll they’ll help you out in some form or another and the great news, in my opinion about them, and one of the reasons why I like to partner with them is that they care about people, and they, they’ll find a way to make it work for you whether it benefits them or not. And so my guest today is from Chief of Staff, he has a passion for introducing good people to each other, to modern approaches and to perfect fit workplaces. We’re living through an unprecedented time. I know we say unprecedented time a lot. But it’s true of hybrid models and turnover, as so many reconsider their professional future. How do they navigate change and find the ideal culture that will enable them to succeed? One person knows best. And he’s joining me in the virtual studio today. Casey Wright is the visionary founder, president and I don’t know about founder but owner, President Chief of Staff Kansas City recruitment firm, building the workforce of tomorrow from entry level to executive. Meeting the challenges of the future meant building a business unlike any other. So with proprietary techniques and a team of the best, he’s bringing his industry into the now building connections that matter for job seekers and creators, alike. That’s like the nicest thing that I think I’ve ever said, about Casey Wright, who’s a good friend of mine, and I didn’t write that. So that’s why. What’s going on?

Casey Wright 2:24
How are you? How are you? Thanks for having me.

Joel Goldberg 2:27
Let’s get out. You know, I think we could I mean, beyond the partnership, and I’m doing some stuff for you and all that. We could do this probably more frequently if we can get everyone on the same page only because the world just keeps changing. And I know that when the world changes, whether it be related to inflation, whether it related to the job market, whatever it is that that, that you’re dealing with the results of that I guess a lot of us are. But the loaded question is, how much is the world changing right now in terms of jobs?

Casey Wright 2:59
A lot changes every single day. I tell people that I’ve seen about, I don’t know, 10 or 12 different cycles in the hiring market in the 16 years that I’ve been in this industry. And people will be like, Well, what’s it like this year? It’s like, not what’s it like this year. It’s what’s it like this month, this week, this day, because it is ever changing every single day right now.

Joel Goldberg 3:23
I guess you could look at that one of two ways. You could look at it like it’s, it’s stressful. And I don’t know, you know, where it’s going and all that type of stuff. I mean, you’ve got to be able to predict that. But I wonder too, if it’s like for me, in my world, I have never had any idea what I’m getting into any day. It’s the beauty, I think of baseball more than covering any other sport, because you generally have an idea you if you and I go watch a football game, we have an expectation that the Chiefs are going to win or this is going to be a tough one. And in baseball, you could have the best team face the worst team and you’re not saying oh my gosh, they upset them, maybe in a series maybe in the playoffs? And so I never know what I’m walking into every single day. I know what I’m doing. But I don’t know exactly how it’s gonna go. And if that’s a bit of the case, maybe a little an over exaggeration, but not much is that thought I mean, is that keep you on your toes?

Casey Wright 4:11
Oh, absolutely. No two days have ever been remotely close to the same for me since I’ve been in this business. Some days, I’m focused on finding talent for our clients and other days, I’m focused on finding companies that are hiring. And some days I’m focused on hiring people for my own team, and every single day is different. And honestly, that’s that was what keeps me interested. My first job out of college was a, you know, an eight to 4:30. But I was bored to tears and I sit there and look at the clock all day long. And I’m like, Oh, darn it. It’s only 9am. Now I’m looking at the clock and like it’s already 6pm, and I still have a ton left to do but better to be busy than bored. That’s for sure.

Joel Goldberg 4:55
Yeah, and it’s all over the place in a good way. But I think it’s, I want to go back to this a little bit that during the pandemic, there was such a huge pivot for you in the way you went about your business because you started having to pursue other lanes that I don’t think you ever really dreamed of pursuing. And, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think there’s a lesson here that that in many ways that kept you afloat, or at times it did keep you afloat until some things went back to quote unquote, normal. So talking about that a little bit, because I know, you know, and nothing in life is ever easy. But, but here, you, you finally realizing your dream, you’re buying this company, and you’re ready to go, that’s got to be a scary thing, right? A new endeavor, younger guy, you’re ready. And then the pandemic hits, and it’s like, wait a minute, what did I just buy here? So what, how scary was that? And two, how did you stay afloat?

Casey Wright 5:51
I don’t know that I’m a younger guy anymore. But…

Joel Goldberg 5:53
Well, you don’t feel younger anymore after all that.

Casey Wright 5:57
Well, I never thought I’d be a business owner either. And, you know, nine months into taken over here, we, the pandemic hit, certainly did not envision that happening. You know, we had three main divisions when I, the first year that I was here, mostly it was administrative, right? About the firm of finance. And accounting is what I’ve always done, recruiting wise. And then we launched an HR division, HR got rocked in the beginning of the pandemic. And that was a big struggle, because I had a whole team of people in place, an HR folks. And early on, that was not a, that was not a strong one, just due to demand. But then we started getting all sorts of requests for sales and operations people. That wasn’t necessarily the next Division I plan to launch. But the pandemic created need to pivot and we pivot to that. That’s a great division. For us. Now, HR is a great division for us. Now we’re getting ready to launch a couple other ones that we probably wouldn’t have launched it quickly, if it wouldn’t have been for the pandemic, but out of necessity, we did. And now we’ve grown more quickly than I ever would have anticipated in less than three years. Well, actually, I guess today is technically my third anniversary event in the firm. So

Joel Goldberg 7:06
yeah, as we’re recording this in the early ish part of June, I guess we’re kind of getting to the middle, I have no idea what day the week is, doesn’t make a difference, really. That’s I think you and I are the same like that. Mine might be seven days a week, actually, I think sometimes yours is too because people always need to connect and you’re always connecting, that’s part of your, your job. So that, to me, it was interesting, because then you started going down the road of even some temp jobs and some things that you never would have messed with before. But I just remember when the pandemic started, and you and I like a lot of people spend a lot of time outdoors, outdoors makes it sound like I’m a hunter, that’s you, not me, but but driveways, you know, sitting, hanging out, that was the socialization I think a lot of people went through that and and suddenly you were doing some things, whether it be from the house or whatever it is just temp jobs and things that you would have never envisioned. But I think like I remember early in the pandemic I got, I got some advice that said, just just tread water. Stay afloat. And there’s a difference between sinking and not being able to come back to hanging in there, maybe taking some steps back and then moving forward. So were you able to do that? Do you feel like now that the struggles of the pandemic times have put you in a better place now?

Casey Wright 8:25
Oh, absolutely. I always tell my people that work here, it’s like, stay busy. You know, you create luck. Be be good people, surround yourself with good people and work hard. Because early on no one was hiring to be in the pandemic and we had no revenue for a couple of months and which was terrifying. But fortunately, we didn’t have to lay anybody off. We didn’t furlough anybody. Things were going okay. They’re going well before that, but then for about two months, it was it was terrifying. So is it just stay busy? You never know what you’re gonna, what’s gonna happen be there for people, we’re connectors first and foremost. So a lot of what we did was just reach out to our clients and our candidates to touch base because everyone’s struggling. And, you know, my background psychology I say I’m a therapist, first and foremost, a lot of times and there’s people that are working from home. So you know, single people that don’t have anybody else that the that they live with, that are used to going to the office that are really upset in a bad place. And we just tried to stay in touch. We weren’t trying to drum up any business at that point in time. It was just being there. You know, somebody listened to them and then we start joking around we started getting clients that would be like, yeah, we’re not looking to hire anyone unless you can find something come disinfect our office so we can get back to work quicker. Well, then we introduced him to some of our clients in the janitorial services industry and like, not for a fee. It was the right thing to do. You know, I had other clients that were struggling to get their PPP loans forgiven. Oh, I’ve got some friends that are really good bankers. I made introductions to bankers, so we just stayed busy. It wasn’t necessarily what we normally do in terms of work. But it’s come back. And, you know, I believe in karma, what goes around comes around. So we’re trying to do whatever we can to help people out and those couple of months, well, a couple of years since then it’s, it’s paid off tremendously.

Joel Goldberg 10:13
I think, yeah, we call it whatever you want, whether it’s karma, I think that I think I agree with that, too. Or it’s putting yourself out there, it’s just doing the right thing. And the fact that just people do keep score, whether they realize it, sometimes it’s just in your head, but they do keep score. And so, you know, to me, there’s something I’ll give this example without mentioning any names, but I’m doing a lot of car shopping right now. If any car dealers want to be a sponsor of the show, let me know. No, but I’m half kidding, of course, half kidding. But it’s amazing, you know, you know, that industry is it has a bad reputation a lot of times because people feel like they’re, they’re being taken advantage of and, and that’s not the only industry, but that’s certainly one of them. And maybe there’s some of that in your industry to where sometimes you don’t know who’s real and who’s not. Shoot, we could say the same thing about television, I guess that’s true in a lot of professions. But the point is, I was talking to one of the car dealers I talked to basically said, Hey, I know you might go this other direction. But if I could help you with this, I don’t need anything from it. But just let me know, and let me be a resource for you. And, and that stuck in my head, I might not do business with him this time. But you know, at the next time, he’s gonna be the first one that I go to, and he’s not. So that you can make a mark and not always have to, to make money on it. It’s something that that I think about in my profession all the time is that the best stuff that I get usually is not with a microphone and a camera in front of someone’s face. It’s what goes on behind the scenes, that is so much of what you do, whether it is whether it is just doing a favor for someone to put them in a better spot, or just getting to know people really is more about your job than anything else, right?

Casey Wright 11:58
Sure. Sure. I frequently tell people the biggest compliment I can get, and thankfully, I’ve gotten in fair amount of times throughout my career is when people refer business to me, when it’s someone that I was helping with their job search, but I didn’t actually place them, you know, maybe they found a job on their own, maybe they they happen to find one through one of our competitors. But you know, the they say a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. And we have business sent to us because we just treat it in the right way. And that to me, it’s such a big compliment. Because naturally, someone’s looking for a job. They say, hey, well, who placed you in your job? Well, it’s not just replacement. My job, it’s who took care of me to who helped me throughout the process, every step of it, not just who actually found the job. And so I used to get discouraged. Because how I determined if I was successful when I was working with a job seeker was whether or not I placed him well, it’s a numbers game, we don’t place every single person we meet, that’s not realistic. But I totally changed my way of thinking to I can help 100% of the people I meet, whether that’s resume tips, interview tips, you know, just job market knowledge, some insight, some coaching, you know, just helping get people to think more positively about themselves. And then they’re going to do better interview setting. And those are the people that come back and hire folks from us and refer us to others down the road.

Joel Goldberg 13:10
And if they don’t, that’s fine, they’ll tell somebody about it. So let’s talk about how the job market has changed. I know that right now, you hear so much about how much the economy is in a bad place, yet the job market, those numbers are going up. We know all about people working from home going in hybrid and all that. What’s the biggest difference right now? What is unique about this time period?

Casey Wright 13:40
What we’re wearing, is part of it. I mean, the world’s gotten a lot more casual, that’s for sure, which I’m not complaining about. I mean, I was a suit and tie for years. And now you know, a golf shirt is pretty typical. So that’s nice. But now realistically, people need to be flexible, and creative in terms of what they’re offering up to candidates. Because, you know, no one worked completely from home when I, you know, a few years ago, then everybody did for a certain amount of time. And now most are some sort of a hybrid schedule. And I encourage, I understand that you can’t be 100% remote and a lot of industry, it’s it’s not realistic, it’s not feasible. And a lot of people are to the point where they want their teams 100% back in the office. But if they can offer some sort of a hybrid schedule, it just goes a long way to show that they’re willing to take care of their people. So I mean, that’s a big thing. The salaries have gone up. I wouldn’t say across the board, but for the most part and in certain sectors tremendously. So we’re having to do a lot of coaching with our clients that they’ll call me and say, Hey, I’m looking to hire XYZ. Alright, what ballparking looking to pay, and they’ll, they’ll tell me, so how do you come up with that number? And it’s like, well, that’s what we paid two or three years ago is like, you might as well say that’s what you paid 30 or 40 years ago because it’s that much of a difference right? Right now, I’m a little scared to see what that does though long term because it doesn’t feel sustainable because some of these comp plans are increasing so much.

Joel Goldberg 15:09
And once you go up there, you’re not for the most part, you’re not coming back. Right?

Casey Wright 15:13
That’s the challenge because people are, are butting up against their their bosses. And at some point, company is going to run out of money. But no, I think money is not the only thing. Like I said, You’ve people asked me a lot like what do I think? Or is it going to be hybrid warfare, moments, etcetera, and I said, I think the office environment is going to change, I think it’s going to become a lot more. You need to make a more boutique-y type office in terms of just a fun place to go. I mean, you’ve been in our spot, we like to have fun here. And people seem to enjoy it. Hopefully, you know, we’ve got a big entertaining play space, and there’s darts. And there’s fun things to do. And I know those are little things, but you want to make it as as homey and feel comfortable as possible. I think that the days of just, you know, boring gray cubicles for for miles and miles are done. I think you need to have close proximity to coffee shops and restaurants and bars and things like that make a huge difference too.

Joel Goldberg 16:13
I think the interesting thing, and this is in part a discussion on generations, right? I mean, the the older generation of employees probably don’t care a whole lot about that they’re partaking it, I’m sure, they probably are more likely to want to be in the office, then go home. Although that’s not true. I think from what I’ve seen and heard people are across the board, whether they want to be home or work. And that’s not necessarily an age thing. But I do think it’s a fascinating discussion to me that the younger generation, they they are as interested in those type of perks as they are necessarily the salary, you can’t just offer somebody younger, more money and expect them to stay. That’s it wouldn’t work for me for sure. But they want they want some of those unique experiences. Is that Is that pretty accurate?

Casey Wright 17:06
Yeah, I would say it’s accurate. And to go back to what you’re saying about the older generation versus the younger, I haven’t really seen that I’ve seen some people in work from home, some people don’t work in the office, and it has had very little to do with age. And honestly, it’s had less to do with the position than I would have anticipated as well. It’s certain personalities are better at home, some aren’t, you know, certain roles, you can definitely be more effective from home and staying focused. But I would say the younger generation definitely gets more excited about some of the unique perks than the older generations from what we’ve seen. And that is a constantly evolved, like I said, we’ve got darts and a bar set up here. 10-15 years ago, that would have been huge. They’d be like, Oh my gosh, those guys have beer and bags with their logo on it, you know, all sorts of fun stuff. That’s a lot more common now. You know, there’s there’s places in town that that do way more than that. I mean, there’s putting greens and things like that, you know, rooftop bars, but it’s not just that it’s it’s the culture of you know, I when I first started working, it was eight to five. And if you were there, 8:02 you’re getting reprimanded. There’s my my office here, it’s a lot more flexible, you know, people work hard, but I’m not breathing down their neck. I’m not watching the clock. I I think that’s something that needs to change, too. And I think it as for the most part, but there’s still companies that are very strict clock watchers. I’m like, you can be in the office and not be getting a lot done. It’s what do you do for me not not exactly what the hours are that you put in like little stuff like that can go a long way, though.

Joel Goldberg 18:46
So, and I think it’s all good. I mean, it’s the the world. And the offices should not be today what they were 10 years ago, or 20 years ago. I mean, it’s, it’s evolution. And, and I do I mean, if you have good people, and you trust them to put in the hours, not even the hours just get the job done. And so it is a much more pragmatic approach to it. Where we’re, I’m trying to figure things out, is that, okay? If if the older generation sees it this way, the younger generation sees it this way. I tell people all the time when I speak to companies, you got to whether it’s meat in the middle or just listen. You, it shouldn’t be my way or the highway. Understand that there’s not just one way to do things. And when you can understand the older generation or the younger generation, there’s a chance you can make some magic there. What I’m trying to figure out is this, the younger generation is I don’t want to use the word loyalty because I think that’s the thing of the past. It was it was expected your loyalty was expected in the past you gave two weeks notice, which I think is still important, but you stayed there for your whole career for a long time and it was a really stressful thing to leave and now I’ll just kind of jump from place to place to place. And I’m not saying that’s good or bad. I don’t know that it’s great. But that’s, that’s where we’re at. Right? That’s the expectation. So, the question I have for you is, how do you or what are you seeing? How do you retain, and especially so many of these companies might be developing? You can think of like, like, like a baseball team in a small market, like the Royals, you know, you have these people and you develop them, and then they’re too expensive to move on. In this case, it’s not that they’re too expensive. They either lose interest, find something else, and I’ll go on to this one. How are companies retaining?

Casey Wright 20:37
Well, I think you got to get to understand your employees, because everybody has different motivators. Yeah, I think one of the most underrated factors is feeling appreciated. And that’s not just money. Sometimes it literally is a pat on the back, or it’s a highlighting in an all company meeting, something that may seem somewhat insignificant. But it was important it was you know, it was an attaboy attagirl, you did a great job, like those kinds of things go a really, really long way in figuring out what what the drivers are, you know? Some people get super excited to be able to work from home every once in a while, you know, I’ve got one of my employees right now are doing some housework, and they’ve got workers over their place. And she asked me a few weeks ago, she’s like, Would you mind if I brought the dog to the office today? I’m like, actually love it. It’s great. And so now there’s that, again, that’s not appropriate everywhere, either. But it’s a little dog. And he’s great. And he’s sitting in here today running around. And so I’m not saying she’s staying here because I let her bring the dog in. But I definitely think there’s places that would have said no, absolutely not, you can’t do that. It wouldn’t have been as comfortable as an environment as we have here. So there’s just little things, it’s learning your people and figuring out I mean, we do a boat day, every you know, every July where we all go to one of our employees houses that lives on a lake. And you know, it’s not expensive, necessarily. But we all have fun and we bond and we feel like a family. And I think that’s part of it is you do spend so much time at work that you want to love the people you work with. It is you know, people joke around it’s like your your work life, your work family, like it’s real. We spend so much time with them that you better appreciate each other and understand what motivates each person.

Joel Goldberg 22:23
Well, there’s a competitive advantage to that to your right. You may not keep them because of that. But you also might,

Casey Wright 22:29
You know, it doesn’t hurt for sure. For sure.

Joel Goldberg 22:33
All right. Before we wrap up the audio version of the podcast, and I say it all the time at the start, but people want to get a hold of, of Casey, your Chief of Staff, its chiefofstaffkc.com. I have three quick baseball themed questions. Maybe we’ve done these in the past, but that’s okay. I don’t remember what happened yesterday. So, biggest homerun that you have hit professionally speaking? Not your great athletic prowess, of course, but biggest, biggest career home run.

Casey Wright 23:03
Um, I would have to say developing the team, though, I have here. I’ve got the best team in the industry, and not just Kansas City. I’ll put them up against anyone nationwide. Not too long ago, one of my guys here has been here a couple of years. Early in his career, he bought an engagement ring, a brand new car and house all within, you know, a few weeks of each other. That felt awesome. You know, I just sent my whole team to Costa Rica, most of them had to get their passport for the first time. Like that was awesome. But being able to bring others up around you is is hands down my favorite part of what I do.

Joel Goldberg 23:38
That’s good. That’s good. And you do great people over at Chief of Staff. How about a swing and a miss? And what did you learn from it?

Casey Wright 23:44
I’ve had lots of those. One that stands out is a while back, I had two guys that were finalists for a job there. They’re both interviewing for this job. They both desperately want this position. And they happen to have the same first name. And I was going a million miles a minute like always, I get the offer, excited to extend the offer and I send it to the guy and he calls me and he congratulates me. I said, Well, should I be congratulating you? He’s like, well, I’m congratulating you on being able to fill the job, but unfortunately, I think it’s somebody else because this isn’t my last name. I’m like, shoot, so I sent the offer letter to the wrong candidate. He handled it very gracefully, but I was mortified. I felt terrible. And I’ve learned to double check before hitting send my emails now.

Joel Goldberg 24:34
Yeah. Which of course we need to do for all emails and texts and all that that’s sometimes a different discussion. But fortunately, well fortunately, he understood and it didn’t affect everybody, but it was one of those that just sits with you probably forever. Sure. Yeah, sure. How about small ball. Maybe we’ve talked about some of this already that the little things that add up to the big things, the little things that add to the big result As for Chief of Staff or for you,

Casey Wright 25:02
I meet somebody new every single day. And, you know, I personally have always focused on finance and accounting recruiting. In the past, when I was working at other firms, it was discouraged to meet with anyone that either wasn’t looking for a job or wasn’t looking to hire a finance, accounting professional, it was very narrow. I like to be around good people, and I don’t know what, that, you know, I don’t go into it with an agenda of who I’m gonna place you in a job or you’re gonna hire somebody. For me, it’s like, somebody I trust recommended that I meet with you. Let’s talk and every day I’m doing that people in all different fields. And like I said, What goes around comes around. So a lot of times, I have no idea why I’m meeting with the person. Right? There’s, there’s no, no, like I said, no agenda. But I like to think well, what’s our relationship gonna look like three years from now? Like, what what am I gonna be able to help you with down the road? Or what can we do with each other down the road? Sometimes it’s just personal. But every day I meet somebody that has an interesting story. And that’s what keeps me coming back, honestly.

Joel Goldberg 26:05
And that last one before, before we wrap up, just anybody that’s listening, checking this out, job market, I know it could change by the time they listen to this, maybe maybe not. But what what’s the biggest piece of advice that you’re giving people? Right now you get asked for advice every single day? That’s very open ended question, but but just something that can help people right now.

Casey Wright 26:28
Keep an open mind, and, and be flexible and adaptable. Because, like I said, things are always changing. And if you are very set in your ways, it’s gonna be a lot harder to pivot and go with the changes of the job, the changes of the market, the change of the economy. So realize that you need to be nimble, you need to be adaptable.

Joel Goldberg 26:54
Alright, good advice. There’s much more of that a Chief of Staff. Chiefofstaffkc.com. Great stuff and maybe the next time we do this we’ll, I dunno, maybe we’ll have some kind of panel discussion about whatever else is going on in the world because it is constantly changing. And that, as you said, is what keeps it fun. I love the partnership, of course, the friendship, you know, all of that. And let’s do it again sometime. Thanks for Thanks for coming on, Casey.

Casey Wright 27:21
Sounds good. Thanks for having me. We’ll see you soon.