Fr. Tom Curran: Listening Speaks Louder Than Words
Everyone has a life purpose. It's that special something that makes it immediately clear what is important to you...as well as what's not. For some, it can take years to find. And for others, you've always known. In my television career and through my corporate speaking, I have the opportunity to meet interesting people all of the time. I will never cease to be amazed how many of them go out of their way to tell me thank you, when the truth is, most of the time I feel that I should be the one thanking them.
So much of the joy of what I do comes from being able to make an impact, which I do through storytelling and sharing the lessons I learn every day. Audiences may not realize it, but oftentimes they move me as much as I move them. I have found that to be my life purpose, and one recent guest on Rounding the Bases could truly appreciate that sense of mutual transformation.
He's someone who is best characterized with a simple trinity of words: Learning, leadership and service. Interestingly, they apply to him as much as they do the institution he's represented for the past 16 years. I was joined by Father Thomas Curran, S.J., the newest past president of Rockhurst University who elevated the Jesuit tradition on his mission for scholarly excellence.
With a literal handful of degrees and a penchant for transformative leadership, he reinvigorated a community's dedication to social justice. And from "the least" came the house that wisdom built, along with a city he left better than it was before.
SINGLE: Life Lessons
Baseball is one of the great metaphors for life. As a sport, it has more failure than any other, which is also why it offers such rich opportunities to learn. After all, there aren't many other professions that view a 30% success rate as positively as they do in baseball.
Father Curran was one of six children raised in a house divided. Despite having Mets, Yankees, Giants and Phillies fans all living under one roof, the thread that unified them all was the lessons of the game.
"I wasn't the best athlete, but the meaning of it remains very important to me," he shared. He may have come from a home of avid fans, but even for those who didn't, they still understand - and even use - baseball expressions. It's that ability to transcend interest in or even knowledge of the game that makes it such a unique teacher.
DOUBLE: Poignant Purpose
"You can never take away someone's human dignity, no matter what they've done," Father Curran told me. His tenure as the President of Rockhurst University saw the creation of several campaigns to further his life purpose, but one of the most poignant was the Companions at Chillicothe.
The program gives the women at Chillicothe Correctional Center the opportunity to earn an associates degree while incarcerated. And it's a journey Father Curran is privileged to have been a companion on, sharing, "The women there have said repeatedly how it's transformative for them. But actually ... they're transforming me and all of us who are involved with them."
TRIPLE: Role Models
Father Curran's work in Chillicothe introduced him to many women, some of whom will eventually be paroled and others who will not. Collectively they form a community within our greater human family, with each individual deserving of the opportunity to be helped, to have their intellectual curiosity nourished, to be treated with sensitivity.
The degree program was never an easy pass. It took dedication and hard work, which Father Curran was eager to contribute to. But in addition to the actual education, inmates also learned to look out for one another. "I'm just so inspired by these good, hardworking students," he told me. "It's what schools should all be about."
HOME RUN: A Very Good Place to Start
In a world of differences, the first step towards finding shared humanity is as simple as listening. Not to be heard or to respond, but to truly hear. "The similarities, the shared values are things we want for our families, our communities," he said.
So how do we find what unites us? To begin, by looking for mutual values rather than differences. When we listen with intention, we find our shared humanity. And when it comes to fulfilling your life purpose, there is no better place to start.
Listen to the full interview here or tune in to Rounding the Bases every Monday and Thursday, available wherever you get your podcasts.
Learn More About Finding Your Life Purpose from Joel
Book Joel Goldberg for your next corporate event. He draws on over 25 years of experience as a sports broadcaster. In addition, he brings unique perspectives and lessons learned from some of the world's most successful organizations. Whatever your profession, Joel is the keynote speaker who can help your team achieve a championship state of mind.
Full Transcript
Joel Goldberg 0:00
Welcome into Rounding the Bases, the podcast about culture and leadership for the baseball twist presented by Community America Credit Union. My name is Joel Goldberg, quick shout out to my friends at Chief of Staff Kansas City making connections that matter check them out at Chief of Staff kc.com best in the business in terms of helping find jobs, placing people or just just being there for you. They take care of people, which is what it's all about. I want to get right to my guest today. This is one that I'm so excited about. Sitting down virtually, with someone who is best illustrated with a simple trinity of words: learning leadership and service. Interestingly, they apply to him as much as they do, the institution he's represented for the past 16 years. Joining me is Father Thomas Curran, SJ, the newest Past President of Rockhurst University, who broke the mold of Jesuit tradition on his mission for scholarly excellence with a literal handful of degrees and penchant for Transformative Leadership. He has reinvigorated a community's dedication to social justice. And from the least came the house that wisdom built, along with a city he's leaving better than it was before. Because he is getting ready to head off to Denver and I'm glad to be able to grab him before he leaves although in this virtual world, I suppose we could do this from Denver or maybe somewhere in Spain, probably not because he's too busy walking at that point. Father, Thomas Curran joins me. Father, thanks so much for for jumping in with this. How are you?
Father Thomas Curran 1:40
I am well, it's great to be with you. Thanks for the opportunity. It's a privilege to visit with you.
Joel Goldberg 1:45
Well, likewise, and well, you and I were talking for a while and I thought I could probably do five hours here. And it could just be us on baseball or anything for that matter, because there's so many different topics I know that you're passionate about but first and foremost, congrats on this, on this new endeavor, this new journey. How does that feel as someone that has been somewhere for so long, to pick up and start something new?
Father Thomas Curran 2:09
While it feels good. I very much enjoyed being part of Rockhurst and Kansas City. This has truly been my home for last 16 years, it'll be tough to leave. But in our world, we get missioned to a new place. And so off I go. Moving to Denver, Colorado, I'll be living on the campus of Regis University, a Jesuit university there. And from that campus that will be my base for moving into my new work, which is being the coordinator for something called calling Jay Penn Jesuit Prison Education Network. But it started a prison education effort in Chillicothe, Missouri. For the women incarcerated there. And staff, they're providing college credit education, and now being asked to do similar efforts in to assist our other Jesuit schools in our province, and then ultimately through the nation. So that will be my new work. So we're traveling a lot and using our model and creating these best practices, and really trying to address this issue of for as a nation. I think we all know we have about what 5% of the world's population, but we have 25% of the world's incarcerated. And that's, that's disturbing. And, and as Jesuits, we we like to think of ourselves and people claim we're good at education we're so I think we need to be where there's not a lot going on in the prisons, or that'll be my new work. So looking forward to it.
Joel Goldberg 3:33
This is not new, though, for you. The the J pan aspect is by the way, he told me something funny, so I want you to share it because you said your dad predicted, you said your dad predicted this for you sort of.
Father Thomas Curran 3:44
Well, yeah, my, when I told my siblings, one of them kidded and said, Well, Dad said that you were probably going to spend the rest of your life behind bars. So maybe this is this prophecy coming fulfillment here of work in the prisons, but I don't mean to make light of that clearly. I feel as if being there is actually a real privilege. The women there have said repeatedly about how it's transformative for them. But actually, it's, I would modify that say it's mutually transformative because they're, they're transforming me and all of us who are involved with them. So we're in journey together, right? I mean, you can never take away someone's human dignity and no matter what they've done, no matter what act or acts and and we need to be and will be in the prisons and accompany one another and there's something just essential about that important.
Joel Goldberg 4:38
Well, I and I love I love the job because I can I can I can see a family and father and siblings giving but but maybe maybe he had a vision of the great work that you would do to or maybe it was just joking but regardless, you're you're in the middle of it now. And it is I mean, you know what you just said is so true. I so often and I've seen this throughout my career, and I'm lucky enough Obviously not the theological background that you have, but I get an opportunity through the television career and all the speaking that I do to be in front of so many people. And so often people want to come up and say thank you for this. Thank you for that. And wait a minute, no, thank you for such an opportunity, because we get a chance to meet so many interesting people through our professions that ended up end up, as you said, moving us as much as we move them. And oftentimes it can almost feel selfish that that we're able to take so much out of sometimes bad situations, I couldn't believe how many people when I went overseas with the military or other military visits as well that that kept thanking us. And I kept thinking, Wait a minute, it's supposed to be the other way around here. So I think that's some of the the joy in being exposed to what we are and then having the ability to make an impact. What is it about this cause that moves you so much?
Father Thomas Curran 5:52
So so as the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits, our founder, Ignatius Loyola, speaks of his being companions that were companions on the journey. And in companionship, there's mutual transformation, something that he brought forth to us not only the formation of Jesuits, but something known as spiritual exercises. And they're rooted in this principle and foundation, and really has two components, one, building up this kingdom of God, and in the building up of the kingdom of God, we move towards the end for which we've been creating other goal of our lives, right? Assuming so the salvation of soul, some might like that theological language, but clearly, it's what is the purpose or meaning of one's life. And we do this together, we recognize that we do this and companionship and so he formed, this group called a company of Jesus were formed, more informally known as the Jesuits. So this really is another venture in companionship, we spoke often at Rockhurst and always said that we are companions. Right? We would have these all companions gathering, we refer to another's companions, we move together, you don't do with things in isolation. So here, here's really another opportunity to be in companionship, right? We don't we don't lose, as I said, your, your dignity, you may do things but But Can that take away someone's human indignation? Or should you, so this is really an opportunity for mutual transformation. This is we journey together towards the end for which we're creating, right, however, one interprets that, whether that's theologically was from a place of a believer an agnostic, or a non believer, you know, together, we some say you can, you only can be good with God, some may say you can be good without God, there's no denying No, that we can be good together, we must be good again, that's kind of my take on it.
Joel Goldberg 7:40
I mean, I couldn't agree with you more and not that it's going to take a Goldberg in and a, and a Jesuit priest to figure all this out. However, it is a just a reminder, I say this all the time, you know, and I was telling you, I've been said this on the podcast that, you know, my parents were, were survived the shooting in Highland Park, Illinois recently, and, and, you know, I went on Facebook, and I posted something and I said, I don't want anyone's political opinions on this. I just want people to take care of each other. And it seems like we so often, people have heard me say this a lot on this podcast, I stay out of politics, because at least from a baseball standpoint, nobody is tuning in to hear my views on politics. I'm not saying I'm not worthy of them. I'm saying they want to watch a baseball game. And and so that's where I go, everybody has their own opinions and their rights. But I still think at the end of the day, religion, no religion, viewpoints, whatever they are we here to take care of each other. Isn't that in the simplest form? What this is all about?
Father Thomas Curran 8:42
Agree, fully agree. That's absolutely right. And we do this together, right. And we can do so much today. And it's when we separate and isolate, that we will run it as to the issues that we're running into, we really do need one another.
Joel Goldberg 9:01
I was just curious, when when you talk about being in these prisons, and what you are able to take, I mean, you're there to give, you're there to help. But as you said, you get something out of this, of course, what is inspired you about about some of these men and women, a lot of women that you have worked with what's inspired you what what what are you seeing on the inside, so to speak, that moves you
Father Thomas Curran 9:30
Several things, I think of particular instances where we're one of the and some of these folks will be paroled, some will not. And yet there's still this this desire, right? This this desire of all of us this curiosity about is this is this intellectual curiosity. So this is an opportunity to to nurture that to feed that and feeding the mind you also feed the soul. And so it It's when when someone says to you, you know, look, I don't like being referred to as an offender. Yeah, so I offended 25 years ago and did some heinous things, but I'm not offending anymore. And I you can we need to listen to that, we need to hear that. So what does that mean? Well, I'm desirous to make a contribution and desirous to, to learn and to assist others here. And that's what I see going on. I mean, I see people who are being released, I also people will not be released. But they see what's happening here. What's happening is, is that they look out for one another, they're forming community, right, both in it as well as those who are leaving that community. And isn't that what it's all about, really, you know, that they're in or outside of the prisons, that we are part of this human family, this human community. So what I'm learning is, we really need one another than another for two to move towards the end for which we're creating. So that's what I'm learning. And I'm just inspired by these good students, hardworking students. They don't get an easy pass on this, you know, they're pursuing these degrees pursuing this, and but it's good. It's what schools should be all about.
Joel Goldberg 11:13
Yeah, I was thinking about this, because I said, Okay, you're, you're going in somewhere that maybe not a lot of people visit. And what you see is, they're human beings, they're people, even those that have committed the most heinous crimes, and I want to be sensitive to facts. I know that there are a lot of lives that were affected. And I know you agree with that. But, but I still always say when you get to know people, and one of the joys for me, people will say, Oh, what's it like to meet so and so superstar? So and so I think it's not that big of a deal. When I was younger, there was a little bit of you know, googly eyes. Wow. But really, it's not so much that they're celebrities great. That's Salvador Perez, great. That's, you learn, you know, you like you click with some better than others. But but in the end, they're just people maybe living extraordinary circumstances. And, and I think once you learn that you can build better relationships, because you see eye to eye and you're not putting someone on a pedestal, which I know we shouldn't be doing anyway. But but but sometimes it takes that experience to be able to be there and to understand it. And, you know, you've done work with the Chiefs, you you or you love baseball. And and so I'm curious your perspective on that, as you've had the chance to know athletes who oftentimes maybe living as, as unique, have a life with as interesting stories as the people that you may have met that are in the prison system right now.
Father Thomas Curran 12:41
That's right, I think that is seeing someone in their humanity, right. And that shared humanity, I remember when I was one of the chaplains to the Chiefs. And every week, we'd get out, and we'd have masks for them. And I asked if I could bring to students, which I would do. And I'd say that look, you're right with me to assist me here. But I want you to be mindful something here. We're going in. And this is important time for these athletes. This is time for them to be reflective to pray. And you know, they want you to be God smile after he smacked and just kind of with these personnel, just and they would just be astounded. So they weren't there when and they see these personalities bigger than life. But then they'd see these men that well, they, they want to take this time to pray they want to take this time to you know, they got families and they came away thinking, Well, I see it a different differently, right. And they just see these, these athletes really just a few years older than they are lots of things thrown at them. Lots of temptations, lots of money, lots of distractions, but not a whole lot different. And it really was very eye opening to them. They just stared while we listen again. It's this, this shared humanity. Yes, they're very talented, they're very gifted. But we need one. Just to come back to another story here back to the prison. One of the guards one of the was shared with me was having quite a bit of difficulty with one of the women and now they're in class not together to separate cohorts. But they have the same assignments. And so they now we're helping one another with their assignments. And shared with me it's it's changed the relationship because they both have a common goal here. It's called homework. So brings it down to these basic things in life that you know, we've got goals here, we've got things we want to accomplish together. And we can do this together. So you know, whether it's whether it's the students from Rockhurst through so these professional athletes, or a guard and inmates seeing one another that gosh, we have so much more that we share them rather than divides us and therein lies and opportunities to start from that.
Joel Goldberg 14:55
So I'll ask this question then I'm gonna I feel like a lot A lot of times the simplest answer to a lot of our issues in life is to listen more, to be more present, to pay attention. I'm really simplifying, but I think we live in a world right now where we're distracted, more distracted than we've ever been. You could think the cell phones and the social media, and then everything that is at our fingertips that, that seems so easy. And yet I think it's complicated our lives and, and taking our attention away, although maybe it always has been, I don't know, what, what can we do to be as you've used this word many times already in this podcast? What can we do to be more together?
Father Thomas Curran 15:41
I think you've given us that the way for that, which is to listen, to truly, truly listen. And just hear that the similarities, the shared values are the things that we want for, for our, for our families, for our community. There's so much more here that unites us and and how do we find that, that rather than looking at someone as an other, and sometimes moving from other to this repugnant, cultural other, to really starting with our shared humanity, what is it that we desire, you know, and people coming out and finding out that, gosh, you know, totally different political viewpoints, but but a love of baseball, or a love of fishing, or her love of a certain hobby, you know, and how many we hear about that, what you said Joel. Elicit gosh, I never knew that about you. I never knew that, you know, you're you're a stamp collector or whatever. Whatever it is, that, gosh, I didn't realize you have that interest in sports cards or whatever means that starts with you said, are we really willing to listen and to meet someone, you know, to see the human person before me, their desires, their interests, our shared humanity? How we journey together? Can we start there? It's maybe it's, it's, it's too simplistic, but it can in fact, have a profound impact upon wellness.
Joel Goldberg 17:12
I want to believe in that I do believe in that, by the way, I it is tested, certainly on a regular basis. And there's a you know, there. There's there a lot of challenges right now, but again, maybe there always were and and you know, we tried to persevere through those. I have a few baseball themed questions for you. Before I get there i want to at least, you know, I don't talk a ton of baseball on this podcast and maybe it's an escape for me maybe it's a chance to bring more people in I don't know but I was I was thrilled to hear that. You grew up a baseball fan I was I was amused at a at a divided household of Phillies and Mets fans anyone that's listening that that not Phillies fans are among the the most outspoken would be a nice way to say it. And you know, here's here's this wonderful caring man that that I don't know. I don't know if you are if you have that Philly in you, you know they want to voice that opinion. I was one of them. I mean, I learned how to do that when I was 10, 11, 12, 13 years old at Veterans Stadium. But But I know this you have a love for baseball. What is it about baseball?
Father Thomas Curran 18:22
Baseball in so many ways is a metaphor for life. Right? So my father introduced us through five boys one girl, but baseball was the center of that, right? So we learned about Satchel Page. Every year on Father's Day, I took a walk up the street here at Troost. And that's my tribute to my father's deceased and going spend some time there in prayer Satchel Page. So my father is a Mets fan. My oldest brother's a Yankees fan a brother was a Giants fan. The rest are Phillies fans, it was a divided house. But what was central was baseball, and lots and lots of talk about baseball. Lots and lots of talk about sports. But I really credit that to my father, who just really knew the sport loves to stack statistics. And that was just important. You know, even when my my, my dad died, and my mom was here for several years and my mom who is so so But clearly, like father, my father's idea of a date was to take my mom to a Notre Dame game or camp. But they're on my mom in in the latter part of her years when sure her eyesight was really failing. She wanted the baseball game one so she could still listen to this in the baseball game. So clearly that thread there. There's something about that, that. America's pastime, kind of the unifier. It's a sport everyone can understand, right? There's so many metaphors that we use for life, you know, don't swing at every pitch rounding the bases, you know, bases loaded, to bottom in the ninth how many even people who don't know the sport you're Use those expressions to speak for life. So I'm just very, very grateful that I was introduced to that. I was not the best of athletes. My brother's been certainly confirmed there are much better. But but certainly the appreciation for it. And the meaning of it is remains very important to me.
Joel Goldberg 20:20
Well, let's, let's get to those baseball themed questions, then. They're really not baseball. They can be I suppose, if you want, but But how about a home run? Maybe it's an accomplishment? Maybe it's your time here in Kansas City, I'll let you go wherever you want with it. What's the biggest home run that you have hit?
Father Thomas Curran 20:35
Yeah, I don't know that I've hit a home run. So The Royals were known for 2015 for what? It was a game of small ball. And so that's probably more time current small ball. And so my small ball, a few things such as the prosperity center, and those things are important. Clearly, our program companions at Chillicothe, some some small hits, small hits, you know, things being in the city for good. But I don't know that I've ever hit a home run. But hopefully I've gotten on a base a few times, gotten a few hits. That's that's my thoughts.
Joel Goldberg 21:10
While they're, you know, the expression, the expression that that the Royals were always saying, or the fans were saying the slogan, I guess, was keep the line moving. And so you did that not with homeruns. But by base hits and base hits and, and stolen bases and all that I would argue that everything that you just mentioned sounds like a bunch of homeruns. But I suppose that they're just little steps along the way of building a better world. Right?
Father Thomas Curran 21:34
That's right. Yeah. I mean, I my effort is I say to folks, so what can we do this modest, achievable and sustainable? They say Kimbrough said keep in mind, I said, What can we do that's modest, achievable, sustainable, right. And there's efforts and in our programs here, and you know, whether it's the Health Science movement, acquisition, St. Luke's or our community engagement, the tagline for me early on readings is in the city for good. Being both for it's a play on words, both for longevity as well as the the good word to be about. And clearly you strike out, that's the only thing about baseball, right? I mean, gosh, you're you're your hero, if you were to hit one out of three times now, I mean, right?
Joel Goldberg 22:16
I tell I tell business audiences, when I do a lot of corporate speaking, I say, Look, you better not be held to the standards that they are in baseball, because 30% success rate works for them, it should not be working for you. But that's you know, but But that leads to a lot of a lot of, to me learning from mistakes, right? I mean, that baseball is a sport of failure more than any other sport. And it's every day that to me is what I love so much about it.
Father Thomas Curran 22:46
It's, ya know, it's a sport a failure, or you might miss and we'd call it the spirituality of imperfection.
Joel Goldberg 22:54
Yep, I get it. So it's a different take on the baseball theme questions. So I think we skipped two and went right to small ball, which I'm totally good with. It actually gives me a little bit of time to ask you a couple of final questions, because I know, I know that, that you have had the opportunities to travel the world and to go to some special places and pilgrimages and, and Spain's I was wondering if you could talk to me about about that about the Camino and about what lies ahead.
Father Thomas Curran 23:26
Sure. So walk the camino a few years back, from the Pyrenees mountains over to Santiago and then to the coast and finish there. And then, just a few weeks preparing to take another pilgrimage, this one the via Francigena, which goes from Canterbury to Rowan, it's 2000 kilometers. So I'm going to attempt the last 1000 Starting from the Swiss Alps, and then head down through Italy to towards Rome. So looking forward to that, before I start, my new work in Denver, give me a chance to, to be in companionship once more prayer and your journey, right for the whole well moving towards that end for which we created. So just give me so I came back from accompanying a group of folks Rockhurst alums and friends to the Holy Land. And that was that was also very, very powerful. To be there, but but just as powerful to be with the people who were on. It allows us to reflect upon the journey that we're in life, right?
Joel Goldberg 24:26
How many times that over the Holy Land,
Father Thomas Curran 24:30
I've been there twice once for a pilgrimage and once, a few years, about 10 years ago, went with educational leaders spent that time with the Jerusalem Post and the technology, the military, really learning more about the country. I just, you know, getting a better sense for are there opportunities for for education or opportunities for so one spiritual one business related, if you
Joel Goldberg 25:02
I was curious though, you know, the difference between spiritual and business if you're able to, to feel like you pull equal amounts out of both of those trips, how different that is, or if in the end, the feeling is the same?
Father Thomas Curran 25:18
I think they are similar, right? So he's over there for educational purposes. But I can't separate the fact that I'm not just from any institution of a faith based institution, Jesuit institution. So, you know, this whole notion of, it's not just education, just for the sake of education, it's education for the purpose of transformation, being personally transformed, and then transforming the society you're a part of. So we have an obligation to see this world not as evil but to see it as good but capable of being made better and intense. That's why we say this notion of learning leadership and service, everybody comes to Rockhurst not to be a leader, but we believe you come already as a leader, become more mindful of your leadership. And then how is it that you're called and invited to make an impact to be transformed into transform the world that you're a part of?
Joel Goldberg 26:09
Well, I know that that you have been such an integral part of certainly Rockhurst, this city and humbly so I know and will continue to do so in Denver or wherever you are at I wish you safe travels and can kind of sit there and think about the the peace and the reflection that must go on walking all those miles and what a what an amazing place that must be to be I'm not talking necessarily physically either. But spiritually and mentally and and I guess I'll, I'll finish up and wrap up with that. That in itself just just for you must be so transformative. To go through something like that.
Father Thomas Curran 26:57
No, it is I guess maybe coming back to baseball right? So what's the expectation we hear? Baseball and in life, go deep.
Joel Goldberg 27:07
Or play small ball either one right? Just as long as you're rounding the bases on belong the ball out here at this point, but they do indeed. All apply that this is great. And I really, really appreciate you spending the time with me and I'm excited for for your journey ahead. And just just thanks so much for all the time, the perspective, the inspiration and all your kind words.
Father Thomas Curran 27:33
You're kinda inviting. It's been a pleasure to be with you safe travels, journeys, blessings to you and your family and let's go Royals.
Joel Goldberg 27:42
I like that one. And we shall see what happens. And I should let you know as we wrap it up that I I think I was 12 years old. And we were walking out of the vet, you know, we moved when I was 13 from Philly and, and it was one of those, you know, pretzel vendors in the parking lot and it was selling five for $1 and fresh pretzels, five for $1. And I yell out they're not fresh, they're stale. And yeah, my dad had to intervene and try to escort me out of there as quick as possible because I think I was getting in the way of a man's livelihood. Even if the pretzels weren't very fresh. You don't do that in Philadelphia?
Father Thomas Curran 28:20
No you don't know in Philly they throw snowballs at Santa Claus and batteries at opponents right? Yeah, they take so much. It's
Joel Goldberg 28:29
not this is not legend, by the way. Father is sharing a story. They're an anecdote that that that did truly happen back in the day.
Father Thomas Curran 28:39
And Philadelphians justify it because they brought out in emaciated Santa Claus and there was a poor poor season for the Eagles and then it was insult to injury. So in their mind, Santa Santa Claus deserved to have those snowballs thrown. That's Philadelphia,
Joel Goldberg 28:55
it's only only in your hometown. Only.
Father Thomas Curran 29:00
Thank you so much for your time. Great being with you. Please be good to yourself.
Joel Goldberg 29:04
Because the same to you.Thank you, sir. Thanks, father. For more information about rounding the bases or my motivational speaking services, you can visit our website at Joel Goldberg media.com. You can follow me on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook links to all our in the show notes. To watch this episode or others, subscribe to our YouTube page. It's free and can be found on YouTube by searching Joel Goldberg media or there's a bitly link to all the episodes in the show notes. And of course, please share this podcast with others and I always appreciate a five star rating on iTunes. A shout out to community America credit union for partnering with me and to my friends at Chief of Staff Kansas City making connections that matter check them out at Chief of Staff kc.com Colleen loads is the producer and editor of rounding the bases. That catchy theme song comes from entertainer and activist a while young. My name is Joel Goldbrg. For hope to catch you next time on rounding the bases presented by community America