Dan James: Storytelling to Change Lives
Teams are powerful constructs, and whether we realize it or not, every single one of us is a part of one (or more, as is often the case).
The best teams amplify the strengths of individuals and diminish their weaknesses. Players, so to speak, understand that every role - no matter how big or small - is vital to the success of the group. No matter what, you’re guaranteed to walk away with more than few valuable lessons learned…and I’m always amazed how far they can take you.
I had been living my sports broadcaster dreams when for more than 25 years when I began speaking. I had always recognized the parallels between baseball and business. What I didn’t realize was how that could evolve into a way to influence businesses on a national scale.
This led to the launch of my podcast, which now reaches hundreds of thousands of listeners every week. It was even the inspiration behind my first - and soon to be second - book.
My point is, before I began speaking, I had been part of a handful of small broadcast teams, tasked with telling the stories of sports teams. The lessons learned from them allowed me to start my own team…and play a role in the success of so many others.
It’s the reason I always say that above all else, I am a storyteller. And recently on Rounding the Bases, I was joined by a kindred spirit who connects ideas to action.
His name is Dan James, a man who sees opportunities where others do not. To teams around the world, he’s known for coaching the most success-driven individuals to exceptional results. First as a history-making wheelchair tennis coach, and now as the founder of Story 19 Consulting.
Changing careers may have meant changing teams, but the result has always been the same: Inspired and innovative with maximum impact.
SINGLE: Lessons in leadership
Before Dan became an executive leadership coach, he learned a few lessons of his own as an aspiring tennis player.
“I’m the guy … that was just good enough not to be good enough,” he quipped. After years of pursuing the sport with a passion, the fire started to dissipate. That is, until he began a volunteer gig coaching wheelchair tennis.
Dan learned the game from a new perspective, sending his love for the sport to unprecedented levels. But more importantly, his new team gave him a crash course in life that most 22 year olds are never fortunate enough to get.
At the onset, he watched with awe as his team played tennis from wheelchairs. But over time the chairs began to fade. What remained were exceptionally talented athletes, and relationships forged irregardless of ability.
He began assessing people by what they can do instead of what they can’t. It helped him ensure people get the message they needed, not just the message he wanted to give.
“That’s a life lesson that I’ve taken from that experience and have cherished. It clearly made me a better coach, and - I hope - a better human being.”
DOUBLE: multiplying impact
Dan’s work as a volunteer coach quickly became a highly successful career. From the beginning, it was built on the principle of connecting with others to help them be their best.
His achievements include becoming the first-ever US Tennis Association coach for Wheelchair Tennis, as well as being the one responsible for integrating the US Open.
Dan also helped Team USA achieve Paralympic glory. Between the Sydney, Athens, Beijing, London and Rio Games, he coached the team to 11 medals, including 3 gold.
He can even be credited with introducing the sport to countries around the world…and that’s just his first career.
Now that he has transitioned to executive coaching, his purpose remains the same. What has changed is the vehicle he uses to create value.
“It’s very easy for me to lead or to come to you and say … we’re making a change. Do it,” he explained. “But if I can create a why, if I can create an impact that makes us better, the energy and effort going into that change is multiplied.”
TRIPLE: Proactive failure
As I’m writing this, the Kansas City Royals are in the hunt for their first post-season since 2015. The team’s performance this year is a stark contrast to what we witnessed twelve months ago…and it wasn’t the game that changed.
“The concept of team has a lot of faces,” Dan shared in our interview. And when you really think about the teams you are a part of, it becomes clear how important individuals are to the success of the group.
Whether your role is as the leader, the doer or the unsung hero behind the scenes, it’s a vital one. And though society often measures the value of a team by its outcome, Dan doesn’t.
Instead, he recognizes the value of the effort and celebrates failures. It’s an important part of the growth process that is often overlooked.
Likening it to wheelchair tennis, he described the difficulty of the first push to get the chair moving. It may be a slow start, but it’s better to be going somewhere than nowhere at all.
“Do the wrong thing. Fail with grace and beauty. Do it big. Do it amazing,” he said. “The momentum allows you to pivot, to be nimble, to find the right direction together.”
HOME RUN: Life changers
Coaches are in a uniquely privileged position that allows them to be by your side though your best and worst moments. Sometimes, the two even happen simultaneously...and it’s there that life changing moments occur.
When Dan was coaching Paralympic teams, it wasn’t uncommon for him to be traveling 36 weeks out of the year. Incredible sacrifices were made as the team strove for gold, but the harsh reality is that only one can ever be the best.
The moments in the aftermath of missed victory were as crushing for Dan as they were for his athletes. But they were also some of his favorites. Why? Because of the raw, unfiltered passion that fuels them…and is guaranteed to fuel others.
“I will cry with you, and I will hug you, and I will be there for that,” he explained. “But your life just changed in this moment, and it will be for the better.”
Listen to the full interview here or tune in to Rounding the Bases every Tuesday, available wherever you get your podcasts.
LEARN MORE ABOUT teams FROM JOEL
Book Joel Goldberg for your next corporate event. He draws on over 25 years of experience as a sports broadcaster. In addition, he brings unique perspectives and lessons learned from some of the world’s most successful organizations. Whatever your profession, Joel is the keynote speaker who can help your team achieve a championship state of mind.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Joel Goldberg 0:03
Welcome back to another episode of Rounding the Bases presented by Community America Credit Union. I am still Joel Goldberg. I don't think that's changed at all. But the only thing that's really changed in terms of Rounding the Bases is a new guest, really interesting one too, and I can't wait to bring you that in just a moment. A shout out to my good friends at Chief of Staff Kansas City. Doesn't matter whether you're in Kansas City, if you're somewhere out east, if you're, say, in the Pacific Northwest, like my guest. If you are in search of a job, if you're looking to hire someone, if you're looking for a great resource, just check them out. You can tell them I sent you too. I don't get anything from that, but we do a lot of collaboration together. Chiefstaffkc.cChief of Staff Kansas City: Making Connections That Matter. My connection today came in, I guess, a roundabout way. It came from a previous and recent guest who came from Andre Davis, who has been on the show many times, a good friend of mine here locally. The previous guest was Jeff Utecht and you could check out his recent episode. He said, I got a guy for you to meet that I want to vouch for. And when I met that guy, he said, I don't know who Jeff is. I don't even know who this person is. I digress. They're very good friends, and so we feel like, within the first few moments, that maybe we could take shots at Jeff. Anyway, this is where, if I had a producer, which I do on TV, the producer would say, can you read the intro for goodness sakes? So anyway, I always say that above all else, I'm a storyteller. That is true, and today on Rounding the Bases I'm joined by a kindred spirit who connects ideas with insights to deliver the ultimate in meaningful influence. His name is Dan James, founder of Story 19 Consulting and history-making Ambassador for greatness. By seeing opportunities where others do not, he coaches success driven individuals to exceptional results. And by leveraging challenges to affect performance, inspires innovation and maximizes impact in more ways than one. I've had a lot of coaches on the show, and they they all have different stories and purpose, but I think that Dan might have one of the more unique ones with his background. So I am excited right now to bring in Dan James, not to be confused, he's in Seattle with Don James, the former long time University of Washington great coach, although an athlete himself, Dan, how are you?
Dan James 2:40
I'm doing great, and I should be so fortunate to to have the pedigree that Don James had and the influence he had here in the Pacific Northwest.
Joel Goldberg 2:49
I thought you were going to say the influence that that your buddy Jeff has.
Dan James 2:53
Who? Who? Sorry.
Joel Goldberg 2:54
I felt like we needed to do that right in the first couple of moments if for some reason he were listening. I fully expect you, Jeff, to listen to the whole episode, but if you always decided to cheat and listen to the first three, we got our pod shot in.
Yeah and we were talking off air a little bit about how I tend to say nice things about Jeff.
Yeah, here's your opportunity.
Dan James 3:14
And unfortunately, they're true. And so I need to deal with that. So today, when he's not here to defend himself, there will be random shots at my good friend, Jeff.
Joel Goldberg 3:24
All right, we'll be nice for the rest of the way. I told you, it's just an organic conversation. So who knows where it's going. I knew this when, when you know Jeff and I met through Andre, had sushi in Seattle. He introduced me to you afterwards, we connected on a Zoom. I knew right away that this conversation would, would digress into wherever it went because of the I felt an instant connection to you, an instant chemistry. And, you know, I don't, I don't know why, Dan. No, I, I don't, I know, in a sense, I mean, certainly I think some similar senses, senses of humor. But there's sort of that coaching slash sports connection too. We're in different worlds, but we're both speaking. You on the coaching and speaking side. Me more on the, excuse me, on the keynoting side. But sports really took you to some interesting places, and I didn't mention it in the in the intro, in the open, but you have such a unique perspective because of your background and all the work that you did in the past in tennis. Can you talk about that first and how that all came about?
Dan James 4:27
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm the guy in the tennis role that was just good enough not to be good enough, and so I faced my own adversity and challenges as a player and became a coach and really found a connection in making that kind of impact. What I didn't know was that my volunteer gig in coaching wheelchair tennis would become my career, and I have this journey of meeting these incredible people that chose to teach me, that chose to adopt me, that chose to make the impact I could make within Disabled Sports relevant in my life. And so I was very fortunate to become the US Paralympic coach for wheelchair tennis and the National Manager of wheelchair tennis for the United States Tennis Association for years. I coached at Sydney, Athens, Beijing, London and Rio. And more important, got to do development work throughout the world, in the county of Africa, South America. And to be exposed to that kind of impact, and taking the relevance of coaching beyond results to literally outcomes in life really changed me and really guided the path that I would take even in my second career.
Joel Goldberg 5:35
How did that perspective of working with Paralympians change you? They're among the most talented athletes in the world that that happen to have some type of a disability, whatever it might be, and you wouldn't certainly know it. Watching them play tennis in terms of how good they are, you wouldn't know it. I'm sure within the conversations that you have, they're living completely normal lives, or what's normal, certainly to them and anyone that is in that world, or anyone that that has a family member or a friend. But I'm just wondering what that perspective went from playing tennis the way you did, standing to coaching these incredible athletes, the best in the world at tennis.
Dan James 6:26
Passion is, is a real thing. Passion is, is when you want to achieve and pursue excellence, you cannot remove passion from from that piece. And I will be honest, as a player, I had started to watch my passion dissipate for tennis, and the introduction of wheelchair tennis in St Louis Park, Minnesota, skyrocketed my passion. I was learning the game from a new perspective. I was adapting everything I knew to a new community, and more important, I probably got a crash course in life that most 22 year olds never get. And I got to go through this metamorphosis of seeing the chair being like, Ah, this is just incredible to stop seeing the chair and see athletes and people.
Joel Goldberg 7:13
They're just athletes.
Dan James 7:14
And create relationships where the disability's irrelevant. And I think that gift in terms of now, what I do now as a coach, and assessing what people can do, not what they can't, adapting to people to ensure that they're getting the message they need, not the message I want to give. That is a life lesson that I've taken from that experience and have cherished, and it clearly made me a better coach, and I hope, a better human being.
Joel Goldberg 7:40
Rhetorical question, but I'm guessing you learned as much, if not more, from them than they did you.
Dan James 7:45
It's not even close. Joel, I learned so much more. I learned so much more, not only about about this external life, but But putting a mirror on myself, in learning more about me, in which I think is is one of the bigger challenges we face, and that is the true bravery, I think, in psychology, to call it the hero's journey, in which you're brave enough to look inside and gosh, that again. I started volunteering in wheelchair tennis at 22 I coached my first Paralympics at 30 and I left the game at 46 where I came to Seattle, we started a local nonprofit, so I'm still involved.
Joel Goldberg 8:23
You still get to do that, and then you get to share your life's wisdom, some of which came from these athletes. Some came from your background, all of our life journeys. I mean, that's what any of us that get on stage are doing now, anyone like you that is that is coaching leaders is doing now. You're sharing your, your successes and your failures, or at least the perspectives that come from them. What was that change like when you made it? I know that that passion you spoke about on the tennis court, you still have for all of your clients, for for anyone that you are dealing with. I hear it in your voice, just in any conversation that that we have had to what was the transition like for you? How similar? How different?
Dan James 9:04
Well, I think it was similar in the fact that at 22 as a tennis player, Joel, I knew everything. I was probably the smartest guy in the world, and I was going to show the wheelchair players how much I knew. And then there was this just, just enlightening moment where I realized I don't know a thing. And then when I transitioned out of tennis and went into executive coaching, and then I had this clear moment of, oh my gosh, I am a professional coach. I have so much to offer. I am going to be great. And I crashed. And so it was these, these pivotal moments in both choices to be open to learning and to be open to the idea that that perhaps shutting up and listening is far more important than what you have to say. As a coach and and very grateful in both instances that that I was afforded that opportunity by by others, to have that learning grace.
Joel Goldberg 9:56
I know that there, there are a lot of topics that are important to you, and I just, I want to spend a little bit of time delving into some of them, beginning with, with change. And I think that change is something that, first off, I always like, you know, whatever city you go, and it's kind of like when people talk about the weather, oh, you know, just watch the weather changes quicker than here, than anywhere else. It happens anywhere. Our town is slow to change. Every town is slow. Change is hard. Change is hard. We're comfortable with the status quo. Why? Why is change so hard, and why is it such an important topic?
Dan James 10:28
I think change is inevitable, right? So if you, if you even just take whatever sport you're into, whether it's tennis, baseball, football, you know, you look at the past of your own teams, you know, the Royals have had this amazing success. World Series winners, the Chiefs right now are annoying with how good they are. It is incredible. And yet you can look back at a period in time in which they weren't and so you look at change in two forms. Do I want to make a change to be better, or do I need to make a change? Because change is inevitable. Either way, change is coming. And so one, you have control of it. One you are deciding what the impact of that change is going to be. The other, the impact is happening to you. And so as leaders, we have to be ahead of the game in making assessments to addressing the need for change and be problem solvers rather than reacting to a problem. And so as we do that, we have options. One, clarify the impact. When in my practice, I make every client at every speech, I ask people, What is your ultimate impact? Not, not in your work, not can you summarize who you are and your ultimate impact in one sentence? For me, it's creating vehicles to help people find their best self. That's who I am. I am a coach, and that is my passion. And hopefully do that for my friends, for my family, for my wife, for my clients. I hope I can help create those vehicles. My vehicle just happened to have been tennis, and now it's executive coaching, you know. So does everybody have the opportunity to identify what that ultimate impact is? When change comes, can you identify the why and the change? Why are you changing? Because it's very easy for me to lead or to come to you and say, Hey, Joel, we're making a change. Do it. I don't have any buy in to that. But if I can create a why, if I can create an impact that makes us better, the energy and effort going into that change is multiplied.
Joel Goldberg 12:18
It's interesting, because I think when you talk about change, there are certain institutions, professions, I'll include sports in this, that are always going to be slow to change, because things have always worked. It's been passed on. This is the way it is, right? I mean, baseball, as much as any sport, is like this. I mean, we brought in a pitch clock last year, and you would have thought from some people, the world was coming to an end. Nobody's talking about it anymore, right? It didn't go perfectly smooth at the beginning, but for the most part, it goes smoothly. And, you know, I was accused early on all you you like it because you want to go home earlier? Well, of course, I mean, who doesn't want to leave work a little bit earlier, even when they love their job as much as I do. But you know what? It it made things better. So it needed to be done. It's made the game of baseball better, I think. And I want to get your take on this. It's a great sort of coaching change thought. I was talking to our pitching coach earlier in the year, guy by the name of Brian Sweeney, who, well, you weren't in Seattle back when he would have pitched for the Mariners, you were alwaysa bigMinnesotan and now a Seattle transplant. But here's a guy that you know is a our age, and certainly comes from the old school. You know, blue collar volunteer firefighter. And he is ushering in all this change. When he was hired last year to be the Royals pitching coach, and has guys working on different grips and different that right in the middle of a game sometimes, or in the middle of the start, or in the past it was while you mess with that in the off season, or maybe you mess with it a little bit in between starts, but you don't implement it in a game. You wait till spring training, and now they're doing it because they have all this data and they have all the modern technology. You want to be left behind, because that's the way it always was done? Fine. But your competition, your competitor, has all of these resources. But that's not enough, is what he told me. What he said is that I'm I'm not just their coach. I'm a storyteller. And if I could tell that story in a way that they understand that it helps them, then they're going to do it. If not, then I haven't told the story right. And they're not understanding it. You are a storyteller. It is in essentially your company name, right? Story, 19 Consulting. How important is the storytelling aspect in terms of change?
Dan James 14:49
Well, I think as it relates to change, the story is the vehicle we talked about earlier, right? So as a speaker, whether I'm a leader, implementing change, aoach implementing change, or a salesperson trying to to get business, my number one job is to connect, right? And you talk about making connections, and I think you do a great job of that with this podcast and people you meet. You're very intentional with, with your connecting, connecting to the human being first, and creating a value, right? And so, right? I'm selling, I'm selling a new grip on a sweeper, right? So that's what Brian's doing. What you're actually selling is making you a better picture, that's right, and making your career long. That's what you're selling. You're not selling the new grip on the sweeper, right? And so if I can create a story where I can create an image of 10 years later, you're still in the league. That's pretty valuable, and I'm going to buy into that, versus the teller, right? Not the story of the teller. Hey, picture number one, you need to change your grip, and that's the discussion. That's the moment. Back when we were kids, that's how it was, you know? And it's just not that way anymore. Whether it is with the Kansas City Royals, the Minnesota Twins, the Seattle Mariners, or at the Fortune 20 company, that's my biggest client, it doesn't work anymore. We have to connect, create a value and tell the buy in story.
Joel Goldberg 16:15
I tell audiences all the time that when I was growing up, if it's a young audience, back when I was growing up, we didn't, we didn't know any other way. This is how you do it. Suck it up, shut up and go do it and, oh, by the way, we're not taking days off. We're not I need a mental day. And hang with me here. This is not a knock on any of that. But we didn't know any other way. We weren't given a choice. And so when I hear someone more of our age that says, Oh, this younger generation is blah, blah, blah, fill in the blank, it's like, wait a minute, maybe we would have been better if we were that way. Now what I will say is that I still personally have that mentality of suck it up, because it's going to be a little bit hard for me to tear down what what I've only ever known. But if I can't recognize that there are other ways, or better ways, to do this, why am I even speaking? Because, unless I'm going to speak to a group of 50 something year olds and 60 something year olds, and it's usually and it's usually not the case. I wish that we had that. I wish that we knew. I wish that we had some buy in. I wish that we had a say. I wish. I was talking to a friend the other day, who's, who's, you know, my age, and he says, Hey, I'm working with all these young people. And they this one guy just he, he leaves a couple days a week and says, yep, gotta go home and relieve the babysitter. And I'm just sitting here till five, and I'm like, good for him, you know, absolutely, and he's going to stay there till five. But you know, what, if you had something to do and you were putting in your work, you could do it too. We just didn't have that right now. Isn't it possible that all of this change makes the world a better place?
Dan James 17:57
I think the answer, the short answer, is yes. The short answer is yes. And one of the things that we're talking about, especially as Gen X leaders, well, you know, baby boomer leaders, whatever it is, do we have the capacity for evolution, you know? And I use evolution instead of change very intentionally, because I'm not going to change it. I'm not going to come to Joel Goldberg as an executive coach and change you. But can I help you evolve into a leader that is relevant, present and connectable today, so that that whatever the messaging is, even if it's coming from a place of I said jump, you should answer how high you know I can then say I'd like you to jump, because if you jump, you're going to reach the things you can't reach, and that will make You better. I'm gonna get the same result right, but more energy towards it. And when we look at the work week in let's just say we work 40 hours. Insert laughing now, because nobody works 40 hours. But if it's 40 hours and 40 work units, by telling I'm only gonna get 20 units of production in those 40 hours, because no one is engaged, no one cares. But if I get buy in, and I connect to my team, I'm going to get 60 units in those 40 hours. And so this evolution of buy in, in this idea of effort, which, by the way, when we measure effort, it's not time, it's time multiplied by energy, and that's what we're putting it, if we can get that time multiplied by energy, that equals effort, we're going to get more out of the same amount of time. And now we're talking about scaling, whether it is the commitment to get into the batting cage or or working late, as the proposal is due for my number one client, I'm going to give that to you because I am bought in.
Joel Goldberg 19:40
Yeah, and that's what I'm seeing this year with the Kansas City Royals. This buy in. It's year number two of a new manager. And there's this rhythm and this way of going about things that really looks like nothing from the old school, the way they go about their work, how absolutely structured it is, but giving the players the freedom to pick and choose and and they want the buy in. That's it. And that that generation, they want the why, yeah, so give it to them. And look, if there's not a why there, why are we doing this anyway, right? I mean, it's, it actually is common sense. And so I think that evolution, using the word evolution, has been fascinating to watch in every profession, and especially post pandemic.
Dan James 20:25
Well and again, we use the corporate words like pivot, nimble, whatever insert cultural word you want to insert, but there is absolute truth to having momentum and changing direction. And one of the things that wheelchair tennis taught me that I use as an analogy, and I will for the rest of my life. And we always said the first push in wheelchair tennis to get that chair moving in the midst of a point in tennis is so hard. We used to joke about I had a slow first step that is nothing compared to the slowness of a first push, and so you have to keep the chair moving throughout the point. Okay, that's super great. Better to move in the wrong direction than to not move at all in in so when we talk about momentum of evolution, whatever is do the wrong thing, oh my gosh, fail. Fail with grace and beauty. Do it. Do it big. Do It Amazing, right. But the momentum allows you to to pivot, to be nimble, to find the right direction together.
Joel Goldberg 21:23
The other topic among many that I wanted to talk about, and you've already mentioned the word teams, and you talk so much about teams. I love that, because who, who is not part of a team, and you don't even have to be working to be a part of a team, in all likelihood, right? It might be your family, it might be your friends, it might be whatever it is. And you...and I was going to bring this up at some point. I mean, you, you just got some great news. I think you have more hair than the last time that that I talked to you.
I mean, it's a little whiter than it used to be, but yeah, I actually have hair now.
Yeah, you have hair now. So one, congratulations, cancer in remission, but you know this. You're not surviving cancer by yourself, that's for sure, right? And so I only bring that up one I wanted a chance to to congratulate you on this podcast, because that's more important than anything. But, but two, this perspective, this, this importance of teams, literally applies to anything, right? I mean, I'm, I'm a part of, I can't even tell you how many different teams, right? Whether it be traveling with the Kansas City Royals and and being a tiny, tiny cog in that whole wheel, to my television team, to my broadcast partner, to on and on and on, and my producer on and on and on. Tell me about the importance of teams your message. And I've got to imagine that every, every leader that you're working with is leading a team of their own.
Dan James 22:59
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much for the kind words. It's it's been. I'm very, very fortunate. I had amazing oncologist. My wife, Jamie, has just been a, I mean, a rock star. I can't there are words to describe how amazing she she has been. And so I think about this cancer journey, and you get the worst news of your life, right? And someone actually says, I'm sorry, I have bad news. You have cancer, right? The first part of my team was the doctor who told me that in the emergency room, then followed that up with, but this is one you can beat. This is one you can beat. And so she set the tone for me and the rest of my team, that my mindset from day one was that this is a cancer I could beat, you know. And then I was surrounded by people who said, this is one you can beat. And I think as you look at the teams you're in, whether you are the leader, the doer, the owner, or whatever it is, you have a very specific role to for success. And I think it's important to understand that there are high performing teams with with high outcomes. Congratulations. You are. That's the person who's on a 20 game hitting streak that has LPS of 934, right? So that that, that's that, that's easy, that's fun. They're high performing teams that are having low outcomes. And that's where I was with cancer, right in that that I think we're fighting, but I was sick right then you have low performing teams with high outcomes, which is the biggest danger, personally and professionally, because they're doing the wrong things. May have the wrong people in place, but they're still getting results. See the the 2022 Vikings who went 13 and four with a negative point differential. The following year, they only won seven games, right? And then there's the low performing teams with low outcomes. And then that's where change comes in that we talked about earlier. And so it's it's this idea that as a leader, as a member of a team, how are you assessing that team? Do, are you actually just looking at the outcomes, or are you looking at the team as a whole and saying, this is actually where we're at, and here's where we need to change, where we need to be better, you know? And I'll change that to the Paralympic team that I was fortunate enough to coach to 11 Paralympic medals, you know. And I had the years of high performing, high outcome, you know, in the years of high performing, low outcome, and then the challenges that brings in the ability to recover and grow together in the choice in how you message those outcomes. High performing, high outcome, great job. Stay in it. So anyway, I think it's just really important that the concept of team has a lot of faces.
Joel Goldberg 25:41
Yeah, and I think that we see this in sports and business, as you said, the high performing team. Hey, good job. Go get them, although that messaging there might be different for the high performing team that was supposed to do that versus the high performing team that might be overachieving, right? Hey, you're doing what you're supposed to do. Or maybe you've got to encourage them to keep on going, because are they going to be able to do it or not? Or maybe more difficult is that group that wasn't supposed to lose, and they are losing. Those Vikings you just talked about, I'm not taking a cheap shot there. They were supposed to be good. Maybe circumstances happen that are out of their control, injuries, whatever it might be, something changes in the economy. Wasn't expecting that suddenly you're having a bad second or third quarter. The unknown, right? And so we all have goals and expectations when we meet them. That's the easy part. Then it's a matter of, how much are you nudging them forward? How much can you lay back? But I think about the teams that are struggling, whether it be those that were supposed to be better and are not, how do you then figure out a way to continue to motivate them, see if you can get them back, or how do you make sense of it all? And maybe even worse is the team that knew from the beginning they had no chance. You know, in the in the work world, I'm just here to pay the bills. You know, look, I know we're not very good, but I'm trying to put food on the table, or the I mean, I think about this in baseball terms, the Chicago White Sox are the worst team in baseball. I talked to some guys when they were here in town in in July, and I said, look, it's at this point. It's every man for himself, because everybody's just trying to fight for their future. Well, how do you lead that? Right? You know, you have no chance. At least German sort of Viking said, Well, maybe if we can get this guy back healthy and we could do this, we could be that. I always say that on day one of any season, in terms of sports, everybody thinks they have a chance. The best teams have the fewest ifs, the worst teams have the most ifs. But if all those ifs happen, you might get there, and then there'll be other ifs that pop up along the way. What are the differences in coaching teams that are in different types of circumstances?
Dan James 28:02
Well, I think honesty. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's really important to be transparent as a coach, you know, in in by being transparent setting goals that are realistic and fair. And one of the biggest mistakes we make in, especially in professional sports, you know, is one who worked at the US Open Grand Slam and saw that world you see to see professional baseball players every day during the season, there is a very unrealistic expectation from people around that, right? Why are you not hitting .573? I mean, what's wrong with you? You're getting paid all this money. And so we focus on these unrealistic outcomes, even the ones we put on ourselves, which are probably the toughest. I know I'm the toughest on myself in terms of expectation, and we lose sight of measuring the process that the outcomes may or may not happen. I can't control that all the time. If you and I go out and play tennis and you're just better than I am, congratulations. But what am I measuring? Hey, I did serve 70% today, and that was my goal, and so that's a success. Hey, I'm in a slump, but my hard hit rate went up 30% right? And so those there's things in the process that we can control, where we can measure success. We also need to do a heck of a lot better job of measuring failure. In being able to say we did everything right. We failed. Here's why we're better. And we can celebrate that right. And with my teams, there were moments where we celebrated the failures way bigger than the successes, because it was tangible how much better we had just become. And so between process and creating a safe space for failing, and go back to your pitching coach who said, we're doing this in the middle of the season, and I'm going to put you in a safe space to take the risk to do this, and I'm going to make you feel good if it doesn't work out because you tried it, because you attempted that is a success, not that, not the actual degree of sweep and that you hit the lower left corner. I am celebrating the fact that you did it first. That's it, right? And if we can start to celebrate the process and measure the process, we suddenly are not as worried about being trying to incept or whatever Chicago is right now, and we're much more worried about, hey, we're getting better by this much. Our process is better, you know, and there's no way to come out of that.
Joel Goldberg 30:22
We get so wrapped up in the numbers, you know. And I always say the worst month in baseball is April, because it's the only numbers that you have, yeah, but if you have those bad numbers in April, and they start to trickle into May, and suddenly, if you're a .190 hitter in July, and that's all you're staring at when you step up to the plate, up on the Jumbotron, you you know, you really shouldn't be looking at it. The fans are all looking at it and saying, This guy is terrible. And then they wonder how he went three for four. Well, maybe the process is working. Maybe he had some bad luck. There's so many. That's the beauty for me of being around the team every single day, is it's not a snapshot, you know, it's, it's when I see the Seattle Mariners. We saw them twice in the big April. That's it. I don't or there was one year we saw the Mariners in April and we saw them again in September. Might as well have been two different teams. So you're just getting a snap shot of it. I want to, I want to hone in a little bit on what you said about the failure. You and I, when we had met on Zoom, had some talk about failure too, and and how instructive it is, how how powerful failure can be as a teaching tool and as a celebratory moment. I know that that's something that that you really, really cherished. I think if that's the right word, those those failing moments as opportunities during your coaching years.
Dan James 31:43
I think it's really important to know that I adopted this celebration of failure because of my life and how many times I've failed and how good I am at failing. I do it a lot. I think, I think the concept of actually it in my curriculum when I do speaking and I do executive coaching, is called proactive failure, right? And in proactive failure, I've got a plan. It's an agreed upon plan. We're on the same page. I put forth the effort, time, time and energy, and I've taken an educated risk, right? Because you if you want to tread water and stay the same, you avoid risk. If you want to achieve something great, you take the risk. And so if I've done those things and I have a failing moment, not failure, a failing moment, I just got better. It is in the moment of failure where I was too afraid to try change. Was too overwhelming, right? I just wasn't interested in the effort. I just can't be bothered that's a kind of failure that actually can bring a team an individual, down, but I will always celebrate the person who's done the right thing and has taken a risk, because I guarantee you, maybe not today, but tomorrow, they will be better.
Joel Goldberg 32:54
Those are hard conversations, right? I mean, they're fulfilling conversations, but but tough ones, aren't they?
Dan James 33:01
They're really hard in the hardest part is, if it's someone who truly is going to be a high performer and they have that failing moment, they're devastated. And as a coach, I've, I've watched world number ones lose. I watched my world number one lose in the Paralympic gold medal match, right? And we all cracked in the match you've been preparing for for about four years. Four years, put everything into travel the world, gave up time of family, right? I used to travel 30-36, weeks out of the year, right? And, and, and that that's during a Paralympic year. It wasn't that much every year, but the idea of making that sacrifice and not achieving the goal, it's devastating. And as a coach, it's devastating for me, for that athlete. At the same time, there's nothing I like more than someone who's devastated, because in that moment, it's because they care that much. And I will cry with you, and I will hug you, and I will be there for that. And deep down in my heart of hearts, I'm thinking this is really molding you into into a better person, a better athlete. I don't know if you'll ever get a gold medal, and nor do I care, but your life just changed in this moment, and it will be for the better long term.
Joel Goldberg 34:13
Pretty powerful. It really is very hard in the moment, certainly as the the competitor, the the person that you're coaching to get it. I know they look back. I hope they look back and and grow from it, right? I mean, but it's hard in the moment to feel that. I guess that's the job of a coach.
Dan James 34:32
Well, it's the job, it's the job of coaching. And, you know, I tell people, as an executive coach, I start as a teacher, right? And I have a progression. And as athlete coaches, we know that the progression of developing biomechanical skill, you teach it, you coach it with repetitions, you insert it in a safe environment, and then you master it, right? And so as executive coach, I've transitioned that to business right. Whether you are the leader coach or I'm coaching you. I teach, I coach, we manage, we empower you. Right? And so the idea is that I'm I am as a coach, sometimes a teacher, but more important, the relationship should transition to just being a thought partner, because I believe that in coaching, it is my job to transfer the ownership of whatever knowledge I have and for you to own. And so when people change my curriculum language and call it something different. They apologize like, oh my gosh, Dan, I'm so sorry. I meant...Stop. You call it something different because you own it. And in those moments and that adversity, as a Sport Coach, you want them to own that moment right? As an executive coach in business, I want you to be able to go lead your team now with what you just learned.
Joel Goldberg 35:41
Let's get to the baseball themed questions. We haven't even argued about you being a Twins fan and me being with the Royals. Maybe it'll come down to the final day of the season. Maybe the division will be on the line. Maybe Cleveland will come back down to earth and it'll be me versus you. That'd be a lot of fun.
Dan James 35:54
I am, I am physically afraid of Cleveland, and I will hold on to my two senior years. My senior year in high school, my senior year in college, the Twins won the Series both of those years. And so clearly for the Twins, clearly for the Twins to be successful, I need to go back to school and graduate.
87 and 91 right?
You got it.
Joel Goldberg 36:13
My first ever World Series, I think I told you this, was game two of the 91 World Series. One of my college roommates was from, still lives in, Minnetonka, Minnesota. Family had season tickets, and he brought a bunch of us in, and we got to go to the the Twins Braves game at the at the Metrodome.
Dan James 36:31
Oh, amazing memories. Okay, baseball team questions.
Joel Goldberg 36:35
Basbeall themed questions! I don't miss the Metrodome, but I do, if that makes sense.
Dan James 36:38
It makes absolute sense.
Joel Goldberg 36:39
Because I love Target Field. It's one of my favorites in baseball. But there was something special about the Metrodome in its own weird way. I know Minnesotans get that. All right. Baseball theme questions What's the biggest home run that you have hit in your professional career?
Dan James 36:53
It's funny. I thought about this and I thought, Okay, what is what is that big success? And it really wasn't about winning a Paralympic medal. It wasn't about creating the program or the business plan. It wasn't starting my company. It was a moment in London, 2012 and two of my athletes, one one of which was Nick Taylor from your own Wichita, Kansas, who's one of the finest athletes I've I've ever coached in my life, bestowed upon myself and Jason Harnett, who is also one of our coaches, the Order of Ecos. And the only way to get the Order of Ecos during the Olympic or Paralympic Games is A. If your athletes medal, but your athletes have to choose to give it to you. And so it's this really mind opening combination of being a leader, being the one that sometimes has to do the hard things, but still being able to have a relationship that is meaningful. And so I have kept very few things in my sports career, in terms of awards, things like that. The Order of Ecos is still up in my house, because it really changed my life. And it's actually the biggest home run, because it helped me decide in my second career to embrace the fact that I'm a coach. And that is who I am. And that's one of the great gifts of that moment.
Joel Goldberg 38:11
Pretty cool stuff. All right, how about a swing and a miss? And what did you learn from it?
Dan James 38:15
The biggest swing and swing and a miss was actually in my transition, and I think I've told you before that my failing moments were when I really thought I knew what I was doing. And so when I started Story 19 Consulting, and I'm a soft skills coach. I do communication, I do public speaking, I do leadership communication, I do communication, culture for companies. And I said, this is a greatest business plan ever, because I am all things to all people, and so I'm going to be overwhelmed with with work, I had zero focus and I had zero target audience. And so for the first year of my business, I believe I had two or three clients. And so it was that, that moment of No, you don't understand. I was a Paralympic coach, and it was when I realized I needed to have a target audience, and who am I speaking to? And am I assessing who needs to hear my message? And as soon as I narrowed my lane, my business started to take off.
Joel Goldberg 39:07
Makes sense. Know your lane, so to speak. Last one. Small Ball. What are the little things that add up to big results for you?
Dan James 39:16
I always, I always go back to when I do public speaking. I probably wreck my public speaking career by sharing this, but talk about how I started with with the Paralympic coaching, and I had it was in a rough spot in my life. I had an engagement that had just broken up. I left a corporate job at Target headquarters, which amazing company, just not the right job for me. And so I was a little lost at one of my old players I used to volunteer. To volunteer was said, Hey, there's an opening on the US team for World Team Cup. We're going to Barcelona. You should apply. Like, I've been out of it for a couple of years. They're not going to I got to go and the small ball part is the idea of starting. Right? It's not the end. Because we all look at the end, you know? And that's the big ball, right? Like, oh my gosh, I made the majors. Talk to somebody who made the majors and how much they put into it before that moment, right? And for me, I actually took a 25 peseta piece that had a hole, it's coined with a hole in it, and put it on my necklace at the time. And I was out on a pier in the Mediterranean. I said, I'm going to be the Paralympic coach one day. And I made the goal, and I started. I had to move to Alabama. It was the only place in the country where I could work full time. And I worked at an amazing place called Lakeshore Foundation. Creates opportunities for people with disabilities that are unparalleled. And I made it. I got to Sydney. I got to Sydney and the after closing ceremonies, everyone's having a great time. I walked by myself out to Darling Harbor. I took that 25 peseta piece off, and I threw it into Darling Harbor. And in the small ball for me, is not about outcomes. It's about starting. It's about being brave enough to choose to start. And so for your listeners, for folks who aren't sure, who, who are wondering whether they should or shouldn't...start.
Joel Goldberg 41:09
What's the harm? Right?
Dan James 41:11
There's no loss.
Joel Goldberg 41:12
Only one way to find out.
Dan James 41:14
Exactly.
Joel Goldberg 41:15
Four final questions as we round the basis. I've got a couple tennis ones. Let's, let's begin with this. You've traveled the world all over a tennis I think this is, for me, a two part question. I saw 30 countries that you brought the sport to. Ghana, Tanzania, Kenya, Bolivia, Guatemala. The two part question on it is, did you have a favorite, unique spot that you say, what? Boy, I never would have thought that would be a place that I would love to go to, something that just really resonated with you. Maybe they all did. And the second part is, what's your favorite tennis venue in the world?
Dan James 41:54
Ah, that's, that's great. Number one, I think, I think my trip to, my first trip to Tanzania, is my favorite only, only because kid who grew up in Minnesota had never been exposed to the to the world in that sense, in 2006 and it was this, this idea of the juxtaposition of the poverty and then the kindness, right? The state of living and the quality of people, and it really gave a perspective. I always say that we always try to sell the wrong thing, like at tennis venues, we're not selling tennis, we're selling health socializing. Tennis is the vehicle. So tennis has been my vehicle to be at some of the most amazing places meet the most amazing people, but I think the first experience in Tanzania fundamentally changed my life and how I looked at tennis. In terms of the best tennis venue. I tried really hard not to be stereotypical, but Center Court at Wimbledon is pretty special. It combines the austere of professional tennis with the history in a way that, like the US opens really cool. But I'm biased, because I worked it for 15 years, you know. But Center Court Wimbledon, you can just feel the history of the great stud that played there.
Joel Goldberg 43:18
Yeah, it's interesting. My perspective would be a little bit like Wrigley and Fenway for me, because I grew up in Chicago, but we had moved from Philadelphia, so that when they were in the same division, I so I was not a Cubs fan. All the kids that I went to eighth grade in high school, with, which is when I moved there, right before eighth grade, were Cubs fans. Almost everybody. We lived up North, but whenever the Phillies came to town, or maybe my parents got tickets from someone, or got tickets, I don't know, we'd go to Wrigley. And so by the time I was a professional, it wasn't a big deal to go to Wrigley. It was cool to go back, but to go to Fenway, for some reason, I think they're both equally magical. But for me, the magic is Fenway. It's still, to this day I walk into Fenway. We were there in July, and it's like, oh my gosh, this play, there's just a there's an aura to it, and that's what I assume it's like. So I, I have, I'm a casual tennis fan at best, but I've always had on my bucket list either Wimbledon or Roland Garros, and I just assume both would be amazing.
Dan James 44:20
But so I actually, I actually was in the seats for Roger Feders only French Open win. On final day, yeah. And I that each one of the venues is so unique, it sort of like going to different baseball stadiums. In fact, during my tennis career, I did a keynote in Kansas City. I got to go to a Royals game. And I just, I had a blast, you know, and so you're just open to having this different cultural experience with each location and the venue has its own personality, and I fundamentally enjoy it.
Joel Goldberg 44:50
My only experience with with tennis at a professional level is that somewhat early, you know, in my later 20s, I would guess. Working in St Louis, I used to get to announce maybe four or five events a summer for the world, World Team Tennis.
World Team Tennis, yeah, I believe Gene Kings initiative. Great stuff.
Yeah, and right there, smack dab in the middle of Forest Park in St. Louis, one of the most beautiful parks in the country. And, you know, we had the Andy Roddicks coming through and and I think Sharapova came through, and we all enjoyed seeing her at a press conference and then watching her play. And there were some really big names that they came through there. And so I had no idea how to call tennis. I did, but just to see the level of the talent level was unbelievable. Okay, second question, rounding of the bases. Tennis related. I know you're going to be humble, but I'll ask you both ends of this. Who is the biggest name that you ever beat and who is the biggest name that you ever lost to?
Dan James 45:52
Biggest name that I ever lost to is David Whedon, who was top 10 in the world. He actually won the first ever masters event. It was 2 million back in the day, and we played him in doubles. And it was close. It was it was, you know, 63-63, but I hit him. So I crossed, I had a forehand volley, and I crushed his big toe. I just want you to know, I'm sure that he remembers it fondly, not a chance, but about two games later, he hit a backhand return that made my chest concave and just stared at me. Message was super clear, you're not that good, and I took it. The biggest, biggest win is I don't have any wins over big name players. You know, I have some wins over guys with ATP points, but I really was, was just a guy who, I could have gone over to Europe and played some team tennis and done that, but I just wasn't quite good enough.
Joel Goldberg 46:46
What was it like the I think you were, were you on the court with, like the Jim Couriers of the world?
Dan James 46:51
That's my, that's my era. So Whedon actually trained with Agassi and Courier at military and in that whole crew. So I'm of the era of Agassi, Sampras Courier. You know that that crew.
Joel Goldberg 47:02
I mean, what, what's the difference level? I think this is like, you know, facing Aaron Judge or fill in the blank, versus just facing a guy that you know was a was, was among the best in the world, but not at that level, right? It's like, Hey, if you're, if you are the 26th man on a baseball roster, or you're playing AAA baseball, you're better than almost anybody in the world. But there's a big difference to Aaron Judge. What's it like stepping on the court or being in the presence of guys like that?
Dan James 47:30
I think it's, you know, you look at triple A I look at at number 200 in the world in tennis, they're incredible athletes. I mean, good. The question is, who can do it more often, right? So in serving, I could serve in the era it's people were serving the one choice. I could serve in the 120s my 120 mile an hour serve went right to the to the hitting zone of my opponent, Pete Sampras, hit aces, right? And he did it every time. And so the difference is, is in the ability to create that greatness repeatedly, rather than occasionally. It's also a mindset, right? And when you get against the greats, and their mindset is, not only can I do this, I'm going to do this, and I should do this, right? And so the question of if doesn't enter their mind, right? And so you see a lot of super talented people that go up to the plate and say, maybe, versus the greats who say, I'm going to hit this out of the stadium, because that's what I do.
Joel Goldberg 48:35
Yeah, the Aaron Judges, the Albert Pujols, the Michael Jordan's The third question as we round the base is we'll go to your Minnesota roots here. I understand that Ahmad Rashad had a had a lifelong impact on you.
Dan James 48:51
So this is, this is in it's very sad, Joel, that my athletic career peaked at nine years old. But it did. You know I did do punt passing kick when I first moved to Northfield, Minnesota, and I won a couple rounds. I got to a Vikings practice. You know, that's where they were holding the event. And it actually was at the old Met Stadium that now hosts the Mall of America. That location now hosts Mall of America. And I'm in the stands watching the Vikings come out, and I've got an NFL football and I'm doing the kid thing, where you pretend to throw it and you catch it in your other hand, and this Viking comes out and says, Hey, kid, hit me. So the first thing I did was look behind me. There's no way of Vikings talking. Yeah, you kid. And so on that day, at nine years old, I got to play catch with Ahmad Rashad.
Joel Goldberg 49:33
I mean, doesn't really get any better than that for a nine year old, right?
Dan James 49:38
I am 54 years old. And it doesn't get any better than that. That I still have a picture. My mom actually got a snapshot of that, and I was wearing a yellow John Deere hat backwards. And I still have that picture.
Joel Goldberg 49:52
It's why, and they're players like this on every team, and I know they're players, you know, on tennis tour and name the sport. That at the highest level or towards the bottom end, that will stop and sign every autograph, and I never demand or hold a player in a lesser way, because they don't. I don't know what guys have going on. As a fan, you don't know that. As a kid, you don't. You're not thinking like that. But who's to say that they don't have an urgent phone call to make to a family member that that is sick or who's to say that they don't have to get into the training table to find a way to whatever it is. But there are certain of these athletes that sign all day long. We've got a few of them. Every team does. Our best player, Bobby Witt Jr, signs for kids every single day, and every one of those kids will remember it when they're 54 years old, like you did.
Dan James 50:45
For the rest, for the rest of their life. And I will just tell you that that in our sport and I never talk out of school and things that happen behind the scenes, except to simply say that it's very rare that your best players, Roger Federer and Ralph Nadall, never didn't have time for the kids.
Joel Goldberg 51:04
Really. See those are the guys I root for.
Dan James 51:06
Yeah, they're, they're, they're actually, you know, it's so fun to watch people on camera and off camera. And they may have been better human beings off camera. And so in which inspired me, you know, in terms of, how do you relate when you're on the road, doing speaking engagement, things like that. Time is a gift. Give it.
Joel Goldberg 51:25
Love that. Time is a gift. Give it. Good words for us to remember. Okay, I'm going to end on another lighthearted note, just because it's fun. You've lived in two of my favorite Major League Baseball cities. Like I don't envision leaving Kansas City, but if I had to leave to go somewhere Minneapolis, The Twins, I just, I love it up there. I love the people. It just, it's so warm up there. I don't mean that literally, we don't. And yes, I know we're there during the summer, not the winter. I spent enough winters in Wisconsin. I don't miss that. But I just, I love. How do you best describe it? The fish fry, the community, the right? I mean, this could be Wisconsin or Minnesota, the accent too, for goodness sake. Why not? But then Seattle, which I'm not as familiar with the people up there, being a Midwesterner, but I that's one that I look at when the schedule comes out every single year. It's, I love going to Seattle. It's just such a unique part of the country. You get the best of both worlds. Tell me about the difference of those worlds, because you still have a place up somewhere on a lake. One of the 10,000 it's probably more than 10,000 lakes.
Dan James 52:35
It's they say. The license plate says, land of 10,000 likes 15,000 lakes in Minnesota.
Joel Goldberg 52:42
Tell me about the two different places. Different cultures, different feeling, but I think two really magical places.
Dan James 52:48
I think what I tell people back home in Minnesota is that Washington State is Minnesota on steroids. We have lakes. I got the ocean and the sound here. We have the, you know, the North Shore at Lake Superior. I got the Cascade Mountains and the Olympic Mountains. But what, what I, what I the lake culture in Minnesota is one of the greatest things in the history of history. You know, where you literally, it is your job to be outside near on, thinking about water and socializing with the people you love the most. And so Jamie, my wife, and I, found the transition from the Twin Cities to Seattle really easy. You know? It's a similar field that the people are really just engaged in everything that they do, especially in the outdoors, you know. And so really, I've traveled a lot, I think we're just having the conversation this past weekend on Jeff's deck about I got five states I haven't been to, and so I've traveled quite a bit in Seattle, the Twin Cities are probably the two locations that I would, I would choose to live in. That's, that's, that's it so far.
Joel Goldberg 53:54
That's, that's my observation from an outsider. What are the five states? Just curious?
Dan James 53:58
Uh, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Montana, Wyoming and New Mexico, and so if anybody is looking for an executive coach in those states, I'd like to tick some boxes so I'm open.
Joel Goldberg 54:08
Yeah, here's here's your guy. You can check off those. I've been to all of those, but Montana. I've got my other list of states that I have not been to. But if you are in one of those states, or any other state or wherever. And you are looking for a speaker, check out the website. It'll be in our show notes as well: mystory19.com. mystory19.com. Story 19 Consulting. We're going to do this again. We're going to get Jeff together. I take back everything that we said about him. I just put it on a tee for you, but really, very, very grateful for Jeff for making the connection. The three of us are going to do some stuff together as well. Dan, thanks so much for spending time on Rounding the Bases.
Dan James 54:51
Joel, thank you very much.